Vintage Glow Ducted Fan forum
08-31-2017, 03:40 PM
#27
LOL,
Thanks guys. I didn't mean that I won't tinker, I just don't prefer it. I'd rather fool around on the bench and prepare as much as possible first so I minimize efforts at the field.
For me this is also a trip down memory lane and a nice distraction. I think the Mini F16 took 2 years from start to flight, and I'm still fooling with it. And cheap is right, not to add that I feel at this point in time that old stuff is still obtainable NIB and that won't last forever. Might not be able to do that in 10 - 20 years from now. I have a NIB Byron Originals F-16 I am planning on working on this winter.
Turbines? Yes I am sure one day but $10K on an airplane just seems ludicrous to me at the moment. Maybe when I grow up ;-)
Rick
Thanks guys. I didn't mean that I won't tinker, I just don't prefer it. I'd rather fool around on the bench and prepare as much as possible first so I minimize efforts at the field.
For me this is also a trip down memory lane and a nice distraction. I think the Mini F16 took 2 years from start to flight, and I'm still fooling with it. And cheap is right, not to add that I feel at this point in time that old stuff is still obtainable NIB and that won't last forever. Might not be able to do that in 10 - 20 years from now. I have a NIB Byron Originals F-16 I am planning on working on this winter.
Turbines? Yes I am sure one day but $10K on an airplane just seems ludicrous to me at the moment. Maybe when I grow up ;-)
Rick
I think that nitro D/F is a great entry path into jets.. For sure it is challenging, but you learn stuff that you just can’t get from buying a $10K plug ‘n play.
Falcon is right though. You have been infected, and you will eventually end up with a turbine.. BTW, It can be done for much much less than $10K.
Your mini F16 looks very cool.. I love this kind of modelling.
08-31-2017, 04:16 PM
#28
The BVM parts were the key , a BV .91 or .96 , or an OS.91 , a BV pipe and the appropriate adaptor for the OS's ,
BV O rings , BV mixture control , BV pipe hangar , throw in a BV thrust tube w/ cooling cap because that worked .
Dont forget the BV conversion for Dynamax fans , BV starter probe . And lest we forget , the BV "pull out the glow plug
element just a bit" ( made for a great idle ) .
So what's the common thread here ? . Thanks Bob .
BV O rings , BV mixture control , BV pipe hangar , throw in a BV thrust tube w/ cooling cap because that worked .
Dont forget the BV conversion for Dynamax fans , BV starter probe . And lest we forget , the BV "pull out the glow plug
element just a bit" ( made for a great idle ) .
So what's the common thread here ? . Thanks Bob .
09-01-2017, 03:03 AM
#29
My first jet was called a Hi tech 2000 from AMA plans in 1982. Attended the 2nd Annual Greater Southwest Ducted Fan Fly In (still the greatest event in the country) at Seguin, TX. Kress fan with OS 25. It flew! One of only about 5-7 jets that got airborne. The star of the show was Tom Cook with his F4 powered by 2 KB 45s. Went on to Jet Hanger Hobbies, Byron, Dynamax and BVM fans throughout the years. Lots of glow plugs, tuned pipe O rings and flame outs. But it was fun!
09-01-2017, 07:27 AM
#30
Tom, I think I still have a VHS tape with your old d/f BVM F-86 on it, HA!
One thing nitro d/f will teach you is how to fly a jet with barely enough thrust to fly and nothing in reserve to get you out of trouble, HA! With turbines there isn't any fear of snapping the jet on the first turn after take off.
One thing nitro d/f will teach you is how to fly a jet with barely enough thrust to fly and nothing in reserve to get you out of trouble, HA! With turbines there isn't any fear of snapping the jet on the first turn after take off.
09-01-2017, 07:28 AM
#31
09-01-2017, 07:56 AM
#35
You bet! but not quite yet!
You guys are giving me a hard time because I said I didn't want to tinker too much. Fair enough - but that's not quite what I meant!
We started this conversation because I was looking at a NIB Rossi 90. I've been looking for several months and they are hard to find, and I believe considered the pinnacle of performance in the early 90's so I wanted part of that. However, a lot of that "know how" has been lost to time I presume, rather than relearn all of that the hard way, it just might be simpler to go with a less powerful and more reliable OS 90. Still considering all options, comments welcome! It appears I can find both motors NIB at least for the immediate time being.
We will talk about a turbine next fall...
RP
You guys are giving me a hard time because I said I didn't want to tinker too much. Fair enough - but that's not quite what I meant!
We started this conversation because I was looking at a NIB Rossi 90. I've been looking for several months and they are hard to find, and I believe considered the pinnacle of performance in the early 90's so I wanted part of that. However, a lot of that "know how" has been lost to time I presume, rather than relearn all of that the hard way, it just might be simpler to go with a less powerful and more reliable OS 90. Still considering all options, comments welcome! It appears I can find both motors NIB at least for the immediate time being.
We will talk about a turbine next fall...
RP
09-01-2017, 08:33 AM
#37
Rick, we are all just having fun reminiscing about the "good(?) Old days" of ducted fans, mostly because they were such a pain, and now we have it sooooooooo much better with the reliability and simplicity of turbines.
We all tinker on our planes no matter what type of powerplant it has, but we normally do much less tinkering on our turbines compared to our old d/f jets.
Make sure you use proven equipment that has been suggested to you already, keep your plane crazy light (and simple) and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.
We all tinker on our planes no matter what type of powerplant it has, but we normally do much less tinkering on our turbines compared to our old d/f jets.
Make sure you use proven equipment that has been suggested to you already, keep your plane crazy light (and simple) and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.
09-01-2017, 10:45 AM
#41
Rick, we are all just having fun reminiscing about the "good(?) Old days" of ducted fans, mostly because they were such a pain, and now we have it sooooooooo much better with the reliability and simplicity of turbines.
We all tinker on our planes no matter what type of powerplant it has, but we normally do much less tinkering on our turbines compared to our old d/f jets.
Make sure you use proven equipment that has been suggested to you already, keep your plane crazy light (and simple) and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.
We all tinker on our planes no matter what type of powerplant it has, but we normally do much less tinkering on our turbines compared to our old d/f jets.
Make sure you use proven equipment that has been suggested to you already, keep your plane crazy light (and simple) and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.
Guys, much thanks. Still not sure. Rossi or OS....
RP
09-01-2017, 11:02 AM
#42
09-01-2017, 12:10 PM
#44
grbaker, you mean there are other people still flying Nitro DF? What OS engine are you using? Is there a late model version with readily available parts?
I have several brand new .91s and JMP System II tuned pipes along with 3 Dynamax fans. I built the Starfire for my grandson because he loves jets but he's not quite ready for a turbine. I have a JMP F-4 Phantom kit (Tom Cook) that I started working on many years ago but pushed aside for other projects. I am thinking about completing it with twin Dynamax and .91s as soon as I get a few other projects out of the way.
The main thing you have to worry about with ICDF is keeping it from going too lean. On a regular sport plane if the engine goes lean, it just dies with no damage to the motor. When an ICDF turning 25,000 RPM goes too lean, it dies but, it also causes major damage some time (not always...but can). Back in the day when we were trying to go as fast as we could, I have burned pistons/liners, ruined cylinder heads and broken connecting rods.
So an inflight needle is a must. I am partial to the JMP unit. I don't know if Tom still sells them or not. I have used the BVM unit also.
I use a 5% DF fuel with 23% oil. Make sure you can always see a smoke trail. If it starts going away, richen your inflight.
09-01-2017, 12:54 PM
#45
My Feedback: (1)
On a side note, I remember in the mid-late 90's when someone would fire up a turbine at a "fan fly" all other activity on the field would cease, and all eyes would be on the turbine. I wonder if the rolls will be reversed if a OS.91 fires up at a "jet rally these days. I know I will be watching.
09-03-2017, 08:29 AM
#48
[QUOTE=Kevin_W;12364705]That's great! It's been a while since I have seen a Starfire.
On a side note, I remember in the mid-late 90's when someone would fire up a turbine at a "fan fly" all other activity on the field would cease, and all eyes would be on the turbine. I wonder if the rolls will be reversed if a OS.91 fires up at a "jet rally these days. I know I will be watching.[/QU
To answer that question, a resounding yes! Because as stated earlier, most all jet guys had a D/F jet at one time or another. I haven't got
up enough energy to get out the BVM Viper this year but last year it was a hoot at the jet event.............
On a side note, I remember in the mid-late 90's when someone would fire up a turbine at a "fan fly" all other activity on the field would cease, and all eyes would be on the turbine. I wonder if the rolls will be reversed if a OS.91 fires up at a "jet rally these days. I know I will be watching.
[/QUTo answer that question, a resounding yes! Because as stated earlier, most all jet guys had a D/F jet at one time or another. I haven't got
up enough energy to get out the BVM Viper this year but last year it was a hoot at the jet event.............
09-03-2017, 09:54 AM
#49
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Last edited by Jamie C; 09-03-2017 at 10:45 AM.
09-03-2017, 05:40 PM
#50
That particular Viper is way more than 20 years old.. It belongs to a friend of mine. One of the survivors .It still gets an airing every now and then, and still makes my spine tingle. There is nothing like he sound of a Nelson 91R coming down hill flat out.. It performs better than probably 95% of the turbines. It is very small though, and you need to be on your game. But the owner is a pro..
BTW, The Nelson BVM 91 was undeniably the strongest AND most reliable of all the D/F engines..
New Zealand, 1995
BTW, The Nelson BVM 91 was undeniably the strongest AND most reliable of all the D/F engines..
New Zealand, 1995